With Compliance Committees Demise, Are Unions Free to Ordain Women?

this ambivalence resulting from various biblical approaches is why god gave us egw, and will no doubt give us additional prophets in the future…here is what egw says about WO:

“It is the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to become pastors to the flock of God.” 6T:322.

"This question is not for men to settle. The Lord has settled it. You are to do your duty to
the women who labor in the gospel, whose work testifies that they are essential to carry the truth
into families." MR:330, p. 3.

"It is not always men who are best adapted to the successful management of a
church. If faithful women have more deep piety and true devotion than men, they
could indeed by their prayers and their labors do more than men who are unconsecrated in heart and in life." Lt 33, 1879.

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Jeremy –
I guess President Wilson “picks and chooses” the Quotations from
Ellen that he believes in.
A long time ago these quotes were here on Spectrum.
Thanks for stating them again.

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i’m not so convinced that TW is really into headship as a legitimate doctrine…this could explain the quiet demise of the CC’s…

of course that quiet demise could also be a strategic withdrawal from confrontation in order to facilitate a third term…if this is the case, and assuming a third term, look for a resurgence of the CC’s with a vengeance, or something worse, at october’s annual council in 2020…

Slavery, multiple wives, females as property/sub-human and many other reprehensible things are recorded in the Bible. We have learned that these, while ‘Biblical’, are in fact evil and despicable practices. Those who cannot cast off ‘headship’ in spite of clear evidence that the Holy Spirit calls who He wills are in opposition to the Almighty.

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This is an exception to the rule as the obvious context affirms.
And an exception to any rule does not negate the rule itself.

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Abuse of authority does not negate the principle of authority.
Male headship will stand as clearly biblical.

bill, i think you’re not getting the fact that while women pastors can’t and shouldn’t try to be male pastors, they do represent something that male pastors can’t, and shouldn’t, be…for instance, there are many people, particularly women, who for various reasons, are never going to respond to what a man says to them…many people, including men, feel things differently when they hear a woman say it, than when they hear a man say it…this added richness is important for the growth and development of the church…ideally our churches, particularly our large churches, should have pastoral teams that include both men and women, as well as various racial minority groups…strategically, it makes no sense for the church to put out only some of the weapons it has in its arsenal…we’re better off with everybody’s talents working together to finish the work, even if we find ourselves partial to only a small subset of what’s available…Joel 2:28 does say that both men and women will prophecy, which can also mean preach…

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For a Good Definition of Joel 2:28, read Rabbi Paul’s letter.
Section 1 Corinthians 14.
According to him, the telling, forecasting of the future is NOT
in the job description of a prophet.
A much broader calling.

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Well, I am not the “favorite son” on this forum, but neither do I fit that description at F7.

They refuse to acknowledge the doctrine of original sin and “bible butcher” their way through sin and atonement as demonstrated by Kevin Paulson.

So they attack this forum and claim they are the “highly enlightened” with a superior understanding of the bible, and they can’t even understand sin and the atonement of Christ.

So they not only butcher up the atonement, but the nature of Christ and every other aspect of redemption while assuming everything Dr. Ford said was bogus.

At least Dr. Ford understood the implications of original sin and the lost condition of the whole human race by way of Adam’s sin.

Not the Last generation Theology spirituality. They think babies are born sinless and need no atonement until and unless they choose to openly rebel against God’s will and know it.

There is no such thing as “sins of ignorance” in their convoluted doctrine. If anything is done in ignorance, it is not sin, period. So there is no need for atonement and the blood of Christ.

Their bogus doctrine is ten times worse than any misunderstanding about male headship and WO.

So they mock me when I point out their duplicity for their bogus doctrine and affirm each other as the “highly enlightened” spirituality for the church community. And attack this forum as a bunch of spiritual mutates for advocating Women’s ordination.

If the SDA church of today is not “Babylon”, then neither is the Roman Catholic church. Our leaders are so inept in explaining bible truth, they could not find their way around the block in broad day light even if the had a flood light to show the way.

They are not Protestant, nor supporters EGW, or the bible.
Go figure.

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Not according to the church. The official committee formed to study the topic, TOSC, stated it could go either way, and presented opinions in their final paper that indicated as much.

One of the three opinions in the final TOSC Report reads in part:

“The biblical evidence is clear: there is nothing spiritually, ethically, or morally wrong with ordaining women to the gospel ministry.”

and

“…the Bible does not explicitly command or forbid the ordination of women to ministry. Adventists who love the Lord and take the Scriptures seriously as the inspired Word of God have come to different conclusions using the same Bible on the same subject.”

and

“…even though there is no explicit and direct biblical statement commanding to ordain women to ministry, neither is there any biblical hindrance to doing so. On the contrary, a careful textual and biblical-theological analysis points in the direction of fully including and affirming women in all ministry positions.”

You can read all this and much more in support of WO on the church’s website. I find much of the report surprisingly sophisticated for an Adventist publication.

It states, for example, that sometimes the meanings of texts are difficult to understand and knowing the cultural context and original language often reveals the real intent of the texts, which are often misunderstood.

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Bill, you should really come and shadow me in my psychiatric clinic before endorsing the male headship. I have seen a number of men claim to be doing God’s will while destroying relationships, abusing their children and taking advantage of their wives. It is not the male headship as much as how it is used. For instance someone told our friend @tjzwemer that his interpretation of atonement will either save him to heaven or not. No alternatives, only his perception counts which is typical of male headship ardent followers.

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this is very sad…and yet, original sin is key to understanding the gospel in both the bible and egw…

i’m not so hard on the F7 crowd as you seem to be, bill…i think what’s happening isn’t foul intentions so much as a wide-spread intellectual deficit…there are a lot of well-meaning individuals in the world who literally cannot think through problems…the situation isn’t only the inability to formulate solutions…it’s also the incapacity to comprehend the problem…

i don’t think we can really blame people when there’s such clear disability involved…

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The problem is this jeremy. People don’t come with an open mind to learn but a limited understanding of truth and then assume any challenge to their view must not be biblical.

And this was the problem in the 1888 fiasco. Everybody was a teacher, nobody was a learner. Both sides were partly right but neither side completely right.

EGW as very frustrated on a spiritual level, as she knew if both sides would shut up and listen and carefully consider the implications of law and grace, the church could move forward to fulfill God’s will and be used of God to “finish the work”.

It never happened, and to this point, never has. So we have the two sides still bickering with each affirming the other side is wrong. And so they are.

Until people can discern the legal and moral function of the kingdom of God, no possible solution can be arrived at.

So, “straight is the gate and narrow is the way…” No bigot will go to heaven. Only learners who continually ask, “What must I do to be saved, and remain saved?”

“The law is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ,” and “The law remains a schoolmaster to keep us there.”

A Christian can be a teacher. But a viable teacher is foremost a learner.

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Sure, all you “head shrinks” will tell everyone else there mental problems.
I think not…

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We already know you won. And we also know why.
The church is impotent to discipline with no self identity to defend.

Bill –
How do you perceive “discipline meted out” by “the church”?
What would it look like?

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Well you may know but I don’t know as I don’t know what you’re referring to that I won.

Really? IMO the church has way, way too much self-identity, but is wildly insecure about it at the same time. Makes for crazy.

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And you tell me “Sure, all you “head shrinks” will tell everyone else there mental problems”? What other compelling evidence must you need?

The reason why we are still bickering? It is the personal need to bicker because of some personality traits. We’ll have to accept that at times the journey becomes the destination.

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i can’t say i’m worried…after-all, trump will certainly be impeached by the house by xmas, along with barr, pence and pompeo (hopefully)…i’m finding myself almost praying for their removal by the senate, which would make nancy pelosi president…:slightly_smiling_face:…in addition, scheer looks like a shoo-in for canada’s next prime minister on oct 21…just think, as a u.s. citizen, scheer could even be pelosi’s vice president…talk about a winning free trade agreement…:sunglasses:

these are such bright prospects, we can put up with any problem lingering in our church…

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For far to many years the Church has been asking or telling “What must One do to be saved.” Rather than explaining in Whom salvation is found. Discipleship is the consequence of discovery. How firm is your salvation.? Headship is found only in Christ. All others are disciples, gender not withstanding. Yes it was Mary who told the eleven.

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