Women’s Ordination: The Truth about the Real Position of the 13 Divisions in the Seventh-day Adventist Church

(Ian m fraser) #67

In my earlier comment I was proposing that every member vote by secret ballot in favor or against WO and then have the outcome adopted by the GC in session.

(Carlo Schroeder) #68

Were i am from, Mexico, nobody knows about anything, just conspiracy theories about the pope and Sunday law. When I mean nobody, I mean pastors, which are the most ignorant bunch of them all. One president told his pastor’s that the PUC has broken away and is no more Adventist.

(Carlo Schroeder) #69

The conference I was kick out of, and every other member, of said conference, just they don’t know it. This conference changed the conference name without asking the constitutency/ member, as I said we are not members. They changed it, but still refers to the old name, and the members are not the wiser.

(Carrol Grady`) #70

I may be wrong, but I think I remember hearing that the TOSC report of South Africa Indian Ocean Division was accepting of WO, but the Division president didn’t like that and completely rewrote it. Does anyone else remember hearing that?

(George Tichy) #72

Oh yes, that was exactly what happened. It was PAUL RATSARA who did that. the same one who was kicked out from the SID Presidency due to, among other issues, fraud in his supposed PhD dissertation. (Someone else wrote most of it…)

Instead of reporting to the TOSC what that Division’s BRA recommended, and which he personally didn’t like, Ratsara just reported his own personal position on WO as being the Division’s position.

Such an arrogance, and fraud. But guess what? Ted Wilson knew it and did NOTHING to denounce it. Basically Ted Wilson was conniving with Ratsara’s fraudulent report. At that time I called it, "The Ratsara Maneuver."

This is the kind of people who are leading this Church now.

(Frank Peacham) #73

I wonder what is it that attracts us, humanity male and female, to endless "conspiracy theories about the Pope and Sunday laws? We center our worship, our families, our tithe, our faith in God, our morality, our judgments of society and its future–on how and when the Pope will advocate a Sunday law? It seems so counter to anything Jesus ever said or predicted in the four gospels. Doesn’t it? Where does Conspiracy Theories sustaining power come from since Jesus never discussed it?

(Joselito Coo) #74

I’m curious what difference would it make to translate to another language the alleged ambiguity of the motion?

  1. May be the leadership of the union conferences of the NAD that haven’t ordained any women are still not sure how they should interpret the “No” majority vote on the AC2015 motion on WO?
  2. Whether or not they want to proceed, they still have to wait for the local conferences to submit names of qualified women pastors for ordination. Assuming the local conference leadership have sorted out the alleged ambiguity of the AC2015 motion that was voted.

My primary language is not.English. If I were to translate the above paragraphs, including the whereases, to my native language the same would come out like so: "If… then…"

(George Tichy) #75

Have you ever heard of “the boox?”… :wink:
SDAs can’t think “outside the boox”…

(Carlo Schroeder) #76

Distraction is a good way in getting members involved in not paying attention to important stuff, so to me women ordination is a distraction, important as though it may be, the real issue at hand and has been for some time, called POWER.

(Joselito Coo) #77

Text by mobile phones or e-mail from members (layperson-who-sits-in-the-pew) to their respective local conference/mission should serve the purpose. Not for GC session adoption but so we get a sense of what laypersons at the grassroots believe about WO 1) in my region or 2) other regions 3) neither 1 or 2. No need for secrecy as far as lay members who aren’t church employed are concerned.

–by R Lawson

Only the ordained clergy may become presidents of local conferences… on up to GC. Ordination to the SDA priesthood is a means of social control. Power.

(Cindy Tutsch) #78

Educate. Educate. Educate. That’s precisely the purpose of our Fb site, Questions and Answers about Women’s Ordination. We invite you to visit!

(efcee) #79

“…however the spirituality of the church is going on a fast decline.”

Has there been a study regarding this rapid decline of spirituality in the church? Where can I find it?

(Steve Mga) #80

“Spirituality” is a personal state of being.
Religiosity is NOT “spirituality of the inner being”.
So even though a person may take a “permanent vacation” from RELIGION does NOT
indicate the “spiritual growth” of the person.

(Laban) #81

Yes ma’am

Here’s one

(George Tichy) #83

POWER is always paired with CONTROL.

(George Tichy) #84

Why is it that you never answered my question on post # 15? Here it is again:

Are you by any chance correlating WO and Spiritual Decline of the Church?
____ YES … … ____ NO

(George Tichy) #85


The study that @Laban provided in his posts #74/75 does not actually support his statement that, "the spirituality of the church is going on a fast decline.” This is a fake conclusion, not to say misleading.

The “study” was not actually a survey on spiritual decline or incline… It was about the Millennials’ perception of Adventist public evangelism. Nothing to do with spirituality growth or decline in the Church. Nothing!

Also, the sample surveyed was very restricted to a certain population. Imagine, 2 out of 3 respondents had connections to SAU… 15% related to AU, 11% related to Union. Does this sample represent “the Church?”

Therefore, as I said, the conclusion that, " the spirituality of the church is going on a fast decline," is false and misleading.

(Carlo Schroeder) #86

So true. Power and Control are not what I would categorise as an attribute of an humble and submissive person or organisation.
We need to educate our brothers and sisters, so that they can make a informative choice about how they want the church to operate in their area, it is not a one size fits all situation.

(Carlo Schroeder) #87

It is like what they did here, we had a church with over 800 members in the books, but the reality was an attendance of 300, and that was the capacity of the building. The union rejected the amended figure because it was to low, and that would also affect the amount of money the publishing house would receive for materials sent to each church. So one hears that in a certain country they have so much members, fake news, yet everyone accepts it was truth.

(George Tichy) #88

The manipulation of numbers certainly inflates the membership stats.