Worship Styles? It’s Not about the Shoes

Because they are mostly satisfied with the way things are being done.

I congratulate you for trying to incorporating newer technology/ideas, etc. into churches. Pastors seem to think if they put a few pics and words up on the screen that they are being “innovative”.

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And why would that be…you haven’t been reading pago’s comments all these months/years???
No real reason to respond, jeremy.


Yes, having a bit of fun. I saw the irony of his post and name.

When we are in Greece my son asks for Pago. He likes to eat ice.

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Great article, thank-you.


I usually eat a healthy cold cereal with raw almonds and soy or rice milk most mornings and am wide awake without caffeine.
besides it is just another unnecessary expense.
I feel sorry for those who spend so much each month at Starbucks.

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The issue is lack of biblical or relevant content.

Jesus and disciples addressed this in the new testament.

Paul mentioned
Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

Can’t any pastor attempt to to try to reach this accomplishment?

I’ve often said that if ISIS (or Al Qaeda) wanted to bring the West to its knees, all they would have to do is wipe out all the coffee plantations. :wink: It would be interesting to see who would survive without losing their sanity. Well, the British would make it, until the tea plantations got hit. :slight_smile:

Trust me, there are many things you can do to the British, but not take our tea. That would provoke an existential response to ISIS. Even Hitler didn’t provoke the British to that extent.


Please explain what you mean by “biblical or relevant content”? And then I may be able to tackle your last question :smile:

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Then take the opportunity to learn new habits. Try afternoon tea. Or an iced frappe on a hot summer afternoon.

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H. M. S. Richards used to tell this story. early in his career,he was leading in a mid western camp meeting. following the sermon, a farmer approached him and said: Pastor I haven’t sinned in Ten years. elder Richards replied, You must be very proud. the farmer replied, oh yes indeed, yes indeed. Tom Z

Do you no longer care for eggs, or just eliminate them from your diet? They are an
excellent source of nutrients, especially for vegetarians. Cottage cheese is another.

I don’t know about gideon, but at some point, a number of years ago, I decided I didn’t really need eggs. I can get all the nutrients I need from non animal sources. There are so many other foods that I like, that I don’t miss them. My problem is not enough room to eat all the things I like. :slight_smile:

There was a time when it was hard to get a balance diet without animal products. In much of the world, that is no longer the case. We can get fruits and vegetables all year. And for those who feel the need for milk with each meal, they’ve finally managed to create some tasty alternatives: everything from almond milk, hemp milk, and oat milk, to the old stand by–soy milk.

And my wife discovered a recipe for vegan smoked Gouda. It is really good–especially with crackers. And this is coming from a guy who used to cut and wrap cheese as part of my job every day–and set aside some to eat for lunch. Fortunately I got out of that habit before I hit middle age.

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What is the difference in the nutritive value between “vegan Gouda” and the real thing and why the substitution? Is it because you wish to follow a vegan diet, or other reasons?

Many people receiving food stamps cannot afford lots of vegetables as the super markets are often not in walking distance and thus the quick, processed food are cheap and filling.

I was raised vegetarian but my parents, new SdA converts when I was an infant, often craved and missed the taste of meat. Raised in the Deep South, meat was used much in vegetable cooking, but my mom did a remarkable job of adjusting on the limited food budget. Lots of dried beans (wonderful source of protein) and Vegex, a “meaty” taste additive. We kids never knew the taste of meat so didn’t miss it.

Although a meatless diet can be sufficient, with fish added, if one can stand the smell (ugh!) but it should not be a religious doctrine, IMHO. My granddaughters were never raised complete vegetarians as it really can complicate a small child’s visiting with friends to ask about all the various dishes.

I believe Jesus who said: " that there is nothing unclean that goes into the mouth but what comes out." The dietary laws of the Torah were abrogated with instructions to Christians.


I think you are asking an important question. Our stories – even the story of that apparently angsty young man – are sacred. God work in and through those stories, and we in the church have very often failed to listen well.

Hogwash! We’ve accepted food stamps (now EBT) for decades, and I think I have a pretty good idea what they buy; and they don’t always by cheap foods. They often buy luxury foods, rather than staples. They buy soda (pop for you westerners), and candy, and gum, etc.

And Jesus was talking about ceremonial uncleanness (which is what the Jewish leaders were accusing His disciples of), not nutrition. A pig was one of the most unhealthful foods then, and it hasn’t changed in 2000 years, in spite of the hog industry’s attempt to promote it as “the other white meat,” and as a cheaper alternative to beef. No one needs meat. And if anyone is really serious about reducing so-called greenhouse gasses, they will give up beef right now, since it is one of the most inefficient of all food items in terms of land and water used to raise it, along with all the methane produced–a much more effective greenhouse gas than CO2…

Certainly we find in the UK that the poorer people (we don’t have food stamps), buy more processed food products.

The question to me is why they do it. There is an intergenerational problem here, with parents and even grand parents being long term unemployed.

Schools used to teach cookery to all students up to the age of 12, then it was optional. Now this is not the case.

So cooking a meal from raw ingredients is a challenge for them.

Certainly, a vegetarian diet is cheaper than a meat one.

Processed foods are cheaper in the developed world. Many poor people in urban areas can’t afford to live close to work and spend much more time getting to work, especially if they take public transit, like bus service. When they get home after picking up the kids from relatives who watch them for the day there is precious little time left. Convenience foods are sometimes the only option. Often relatives watch the kids because child care is prohibitive and is not available for odd hours like many poor people work. Being poor, especially the working poor in urban areas, is a very difficult life.

Here is as short piece from our Public Radio network. http://www.npr.org/2013/03/01/173217143/why-process-food-is-cheaper-than-healthier-options


Almond milk is not really a modern alternative to cows’ milk. It was in use in the 1400’s.


That is a great insight and makes a lot of sense. It is a major challenge in the West that we have so many ‘working poor’. Our economic system is reversing the gains we made in most of the twentieth century. Blue collar workers and now, middle class white collar workers are slipping down the economic ladder.